Frank Stornelli....

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

just in case you're watching...YOU were in the right, I was way in the wrong!!...just to let you know, it STILL bugs me what I said!!
I did NOT read enough details, before shooting from the hip......urpletea

 

[Rhonda]

Gee, Mikey, did he say that Vancouver Flower Company was FTD's #1 Canadian Sender???? Hope he does read, cause there is more flack coming his way before I get done. VFC is becoming more of a bigger headache than 800 Flowers was.....and I'm calling all senders cause guess what, THEY are MY customers thinking they are using MY SHOP.

 

[BOSS]

Vancouver Flower Company was FTD's #1 Canadian Sender???? Hope he does read, cause there is more flack coming his way before I get done. VFC is becoming more of a bigger headache than 800 Flowers was.....and I'm calling all senders cause guess what, THEY are MY customers thinking they are using MY SHOP.

This was a topic of discussion yesterday when I spoke at length with Doug Parks (FTD Reg. VP), and I reinforced that the problem is not going to go away, and that Real Florists are going to fight back.

Evidently elsewhere on the web there is discussion of a boycott, something in my opinion that will not work. What MUST happen is for the wire services to enforce their own rules evenly across the board, but since they will NEVER do this, it's time that the Real Florists take matters into their own hands and scrutinize every order.

Along with that, the continuing education of other florists one at a time, even thought many will not get it the first time around, is essential to fixing the problems we face today.

The problem for Frank, Doug and all the other "field staff" is that their pay checks come from "Big Brother" and their hands are tied at the top of the sh*t pile. Yes they are sympathetic to our plight, but until we grow strong enuf to cause a problem for them not much will change. Best thing right now is to refuse these orders, and as they are involved with cloaking more and more, tis time to cut off both TFTD.coNs as they are helping to purpotrate the fraud ON US!

 

[flowerknife+us]

Something may hit the fan.

A local TV station is submitting me a list of questions for an Interview on Monday the 7th. Prompted from an E-mail sent to them less than 24 hrs. ago.

It included a direct reference to the FLORIST DETECTIVE.COM. The reporter spent about an hr. reading the material. Definately believes the consumer should be aware of the pit falls of ordering flowers. Even stated the desire to have this site brought to the attention of the consumer.

Gonna try to express my favorite phrase in a sound bite kind of way.

" The Consumer is charged a fee for the privilage of placing their order"

Warning! Standing in front of Fans is not recomended at this time.

 

[BOSS]

Bravo K...

Good for you! You make me proud!

Be sure to report back...and if the station has a web site post the URL so we can all send our thanks! and see the report of course

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

That...

is an awesome way to open eyes..we want to know ALL that happens, PLEASE!

 

[CHR]

Wow! Great that you'll have an opportunity to highlight your shop and flowers as a perfect Valentine's gift.

Amid the challenges we florists face with affiliates (and there are many) is the fear that deceptive advertising will turn off many buyers to our products and services. Perhaps a reminder of the good value local florists offer and some tips for finding local florists to keep the message as positive as possible?

SAF had some florist talking points for Valentine's Day and I'll post them if I can find them.

Good luck.

 

[PETEinVa]

Knife,
I have a concern about a reporter digging deep in the subject and finding that the local florist takes 20% plus a service charge out of their money when an order is sent thru the florist also. Some customers will then order direct from the delivering florist, but my concern is that a significant number who are on the fence as to the value of flowers will just say "forget it" and make other arrangements. We already have a number of florists w/o a clue who think they get 100% for incoming. Are we risking driving some customers away from flowers entirely ??? We stopped wiring flowers entirely and now refer customers to Locateaflowershop.com or get them phone numbers of a couple of florists at the recieving end for this reason. The result has been an excellent response and customers promising to buy from us from now on, and thanking us for being honest about it. Several have told us, when ordering local stuff, that they are back because of this.

I would really like to hear comments on this post.

Pete

 

[bloomz]

Knife,
I have a concern about a reporter digging deep in the subject and finding that the local florist takes 20% plus a service charge out of their money when an order is sent thru the florist also. Some customers will then order direct from the delivering florist, but my concern is that a significant number who are on the fence as to the value of flowers will just say "forget it" and make other arrangements. We already have a number of florists w/o a clue who think they get 100% for incoming. Are we risking driving some customers away from flowers entirely ???
I would really like to hear comments on this post.
Pete

I totally agree with this part of the post. We DON'T want the public to know our "dirty little secret" about the 20%, and I too fear anything negative about how "easy you can get ripped off" is going to have a bad effect on us all.

Let's don't scare them out of sending flowers and drive them to alternate gifts or all this "education" will backfire on us big time.

I've retired my soapbox on "educating the consumer" (and the florists for that matter) about all the Cons, and the best I can do is to do the best I can for them, and keep in touch with my customers thru constant marketing, cuz I don't really think many of them even remember who they dealt with last time and simply go where it's convenient.

 

[BOSS]

Some customers will then order direct from the delivering florist

And the problem here is???

The result has been an excellent response and customers promising to buy from us from now on, and thanking us for being honest about it. Several have told us, when ordering local stuff, that they are back because of this.

Here I think you have answered the perverbial problem. The customers thanksed you, and return.

I am not saying it won;t be a rough road, nor that there may not be some adverse effects, but if the changes we have seen in the last 3-4 years continue unchecked there will be nothing left for those that do the real WORK.

Left unchecked it IS going to get worse. Stopping the "education" is not the answer, as I feel the only salvation for many florists is the demise of the order gatherers and those that assist them in their FRAUD!

 

[BOSS]

We DON'T want the public to know our "dirty little secret" about the 20%

The consumer already knows! They are not that stupid to think we would do this "service" for FREE!

and I too fear anything negative about how "easy you can get ripped off" is going to have a bad effect on us all.

So do I, but it's a chance I think we need to take.

I've retired my soapbox on "educating the consumer" (and the florists for that matter) about all the Cons, and the best I can do is to do the best I can for them, and keep in touch with my customers thru constant marketing, cuz I don't really think many of them even remember who they dealt with last time and simply go where it's convenient.

Good plan, and it does work, but stopping the "education" is not the answer for both florists and consumers alike. JB I don;t see your shop in the top listings in searches for Corvallis, don;t you think it should be???

I have taken alot of bullets for my thoughts on this subject, but I don;t think I'm off base (too far) if we do not take this opportunity to stop the deception running rampant in the industry it will get worse and we may never be able to stop it, nor we may never have a better chance.

 

[Griff]

Hey, Bloomzie....

what are your worried about? You can just tell the reporter that as a sending florist, you don't have to charge any sending fees because, "you get YOUR incentives from the wire services." Of course, it might be a little difficult for the reporter to understand why they find that the "incentive" was 27% or the order and where the money really came from. But of course, the consumer won't really care about all the "smoke and mirrors" in our industry as Cheryl said. I'm sure they will understand. Afterall the consumer doesn't ask where all the money comes from on drop ship items, as you and Cheryl stated, so why should they care where it comes from on flowers? Isn't that what you two were saying??

Boy, how different everyone looks when they start to squirm in their seats!!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

no....

when I send out of town, I recieve a "sending commision", and since I TOO don't charge a "sending fee" (which I feel is now redundant and unecessary), I have gained market share from every florist around here.
this has do with educating ALL OF US (customers and florists) that things have changed, business is NOT AS USUAL, and pointing out that there ARE dangers lurking out there in IP land, and "invite" them to go ahead and order thru one of the many order thieves, "request my shop", and WHEN I get that order, let's "compare" what you paid, and what you're gonna get!!
This is NOT dirty laundry...this is gonna state the fate of our industry in the very near future.
THIS is a sore point....BOB NORTON saw all this coming, and really "tried" to turn FTD members to the new dynamics of this wire/florist biz, and was dutifully "expatriated" for his bold changes of direction.
We DIDN'T like, one bit, what he told us was going to happen, and happen it did!!..and now faster, and more prolific changes ARE coming.
The demographics indicate that the "younger crowd" ain't gonna be "YOUR" customers....they are now referred to as web consumers, and most "florists" are NOT ready..........
REAL FLORISTS...get on, get off, or get the hell out of the way!!

 

[BOSS]

BOB NORTON saw all this coming, and really "tried" to turn FTD members to the new dynamics of this wire/florist biz,

REAL FLORISTS...get on, get off, or get the hell out of the way!!

Yep...the franchise model, with no franchise... pretty smart....for THEM!

I never wanted a franchise....

oh, and the last line...yup

 

[Griff]

Two Part Response - Part 1

It's OK to feel good about gaining some market share, but let me give a different scenario.

There are 5 florists in a town and all get 50 orders in per month and send 50 orders out per month. As time goes on and as the WS they are dealing with continues to increase their dues and fees, 4 of these florists decide to offset some of the membership costs by starting to charge a sending fee for sending orders out of town. They charge $5 for each outgoing order. That will cover monthly cost of WS membership. The fifth florist, for one reason or another decides to not charge any sending fee. After awhile the 4 florists loose a couple of outgoing orders every month because they charge a sending fee. Each of these florists loses 5 outgoing orders every month and now they average 45 orders out and 50 orders in. Still nothing to get overly concerned about and because with the additional $225 from sending fees and the lose of commission and rebates on only 5 orders, these florists are still making more money then they were.

That 5th florist is also happy. He or she has gained 20 more order per month in outgoing business and is convinced their marketing is paying off and they are gaining market share. This florist is overjoyed. Their outgoing business is increased by 30%. The downside is, however, this florist will be unable to ever leave their current WS because they can't afford to leave. They lose too much money.

The interesting thing about this scenario is that if two of the other florists ever drop the WS, the additional 100 incoming orders they handled every month are now divided by the remaining 3 florists and the two that had 50 orders each before now have 45 out and 80 IN and the overjoyed florist who had 70 out and 50 in, now will have 80 IN and also a negitive ratio. What goes around comes around.

 

[Griff]

Part 2 -Bob Norton

Mickey, we must have known two different Bob Nortons.

The Bob Norton I knew was the one that told florists that he only needed 6500 florists <or whatever the number was> to cover the whole country. He was only interested in consentrating on the 50 major markets.

The Bob Norton I knew didn't ask any FTD if they wanted to be on the internet. One month he just told us that FTD had created websites for everyone and the billing was included on your monthly statement. Sixty or ninety days later, the florist couldn't find THEIR individual websites because they had been "parked" in some obscure internet location that no one could find and it was replaced with FTD.com. Creative financing to say the lest.

Bob Norton's vision of the internet was FTD would gather the orders and disperse them to his loyal subjects like they were ATM machines and there only function was to satisfy the master and to dispense floral arrangements at his will and at his heavily discounted price.

Sorry, we must be talking about two different people.

 

[theRKF]

Mickey, we must have known two different Bob Nortons.

The Bob Norton I knew was the one that told florists that he only needed 6500 florists <or whatever the number was> to cover the whole country. He was only interested in consentrating on the 50 major markets.

The Bob Norton I knew didn't ask any FTD if they wanted to be on the internet. One month he just told us that FTD had created websites for everyone and the billing was included on your monthly statement. Sixty or ninety days later, the florist couldn't find THEIR individual websites because they had been "parked" in some obscure internet location that no one could find and it was replaced with FTD.com. Creative financing to say the lest.

Bob Norton's vision of the internet was FTD would gather the orders and disperse them to his loyal subjects like they were ATM machines and there only function was to satisfy the master and to dispense floral arrangements at his will and at his heavily discounted price.

Sorry, we must be talking about two different people.

Sounds pretty accurate to me ...

 

[bloomz]

what are your worried about? You can just tell the reporter that as a sending florist, you don't have to charge any sending fees because, "you get YOUR incentives from the wire services." Of course, it might be a little difficult for the reporter to understand why they find that the "incentive" was 27% or the order and where the money really came from. But of course, the consumer won't really care about all the "smoke and mirrors" in our industry as Cheryl said. I'm sure they will understand. Afterall the consumer doesn't ask where all the money comes from on drop ship items, as you and Cheryl stated, so why should they care where it comes from on flowers? Isn't that what you two were saying??

Boy, how different everyone looks when they start to squirm in their seats!!

I ain't squirming there Mister. I noticed how it just went defeningly silent over there and just figured well, Bill must have done been had on that logic, cuz he ain't saying nuttin.

Actually PART of what we were saying was, no the public does NOT know how much we pay or how much we get and we don't want them to, any more than you want people to know you pay less than a buck a stem for roses. I think it suffices on Valentine's Day to explain (if necessary ) why roses are so high that the wholesalers and growers raise the prices to us, but I dont' tell them exactly how much, any more than any other industry does.

If someone sells you a new car and tells you you're paying dealer's invoice costs, do you believe them?

Okay how about I sell you a bridge?

Naw put them boxing gloves on there mister, there is a better way than 100% and I commend Cheryl for putting it so concisely. :icon15 :bootyshak

 

[BOSS]

Did I miss something?

as you and Cheryl stated,

I commend Cheryl for putting it so concisely

Um...who's "Cheryl"?

 

[Griff]

Sorry Bloomzie, I don't think Cheryl has the answer...

but I wasn't going to get into it and start another long discussion that goes no where.

Cheryl's idea was to find just another way to keep the 20-80 alive. Having a 0-100 percent florist send a $125 order when they only collected $100 from their customer and have the receiving florist fill to value <$125> and only charge me $100 on my CC is not going to solve any of the industry problems. In fact, it actually brings another possible problem into play. Again, under Cheryl's program, the receiving florist is asked to give up some profit on his or her product and services just to make the sending florist look good. On a traditional 27% DISCOUNTED order, that receiving florist loses about 50% to the total profit of that order. And to most florists, it is that lack of profit in their business which is the reason that can't pay all their bills. And please don't say that the receiving florist did make SOME profit even with the discount. The problem is that there is less full value business to go around these days. With the grocery stores, mass merchandisers and now OG's, there just isn't enough full value business to meet the rising costs of most flower shops. So you have to maximize profit on EVERY order to make ends meet.

By the way, what you have been talking about doing which is adding value to your customers order, is the same thing the WS are currently doing to all their florists. If you offer a dozen roses arranged on a website for $67.19 plus $9.94 handling fee and these numbers include delivery and tax and the WS then sends that order to a florist to have it filled for $80 including delivery, who looks like THEY provided the best deal for the customer. The customer only paid $77.13 and in some areas of the country might have had a problem getting a florist to fill that order for them. The WS collect $77.13 and will probably only have to pay out about $57.45 to the florist. So who got the best deal?? The WS did or any OG that does the same thing!

And Bloomzie, you can't use car deals as examples for the same thing. The auto manufacturer calculates his price to the dealer to account for all his profit. The dealer then decides what he can afford to discount off of list to make his profit. Florists don't have that type of pricing system.